Monday, April 5, 2010

Social Entrepreneurship vs Socially Aware Entrepreneurship

This is edited chat between me and Rachit Nagalia. We were having discussion on my previous blog post...


nagalia: dude

me: yups...
just saw ur note...

nagalia: note ??

me: response...on my blog...

nagalia: oh that one

me: well written...
urs is a pure capitalism approach...

nagalia: well... and urs is not

me: urs is better than mine...
in current context...

nagalia: well....dunno better or not
I mean.... trying to improve things is great
but some things take care of themselves....with time
baaki tum lage raho

me: I feel it’s more of complimentary argument...
]rather than contradictory...
]because even I said that nothing wrong in pursuing risks free life..
nagalia: dude...
nobody can say that what u said was wrong
maybe not even the IIT profs....if they were to read it

me: I know :D

nagalia: but aajkal pple are in the 3 idiots mode
isliye all this is coming up....
even in 3 idiots...they did show chatur to have done very well....

me: exactly....thats my point...
even I am saying that...
u can’t stop people pursuing security...
but if you want creativity...
keep on trying for it...don’t blame the system...

nagalia: dude
I got ur point
I agree with it

nagalia: no point debating wid me

me: :D
I think we agree with each other...

nagalia: dude....blaming the system is all pple have...most of the times
and its not their fault....

me: which is not the best thing to do...

nagalia: they haven’t seen a system which encourages you to do something....

"different"

me: yaar role of system is limited...
in terms of college system...

nagalia: haan I agree
but if u have a cousin in US
or u have a loser from school....who fled India and joined some random US college...and is doing much better than u...
all u can do is blame the system
or maybe flee to the US yourself

me: yups...
but even that system will crash...
nothing works on long term...
and my point is…once you go a bit up and see the whole socio-economic system...then you can realize where the actual prob. lies...

nagalia: now thats where I don't agree with u....
I mean....it obviously wont last for ever
and even in the current state it is helped by 'good" people migrating to US from all over the world

me: see the point is...crash doesnt mean an overnight change...
what happens is a change in system...brings a new value set...
which makes current "efficient" system...into an inefficient one...
then system readjusts itself...

nagalia: well...
it will take time

me: so if you say wat happen in US is exactly wat will happen in India...
it wont...

nagalia: but I assume u will keep trying...

me: I’ll give u an example...
see in the case of agriculture...
capitalist argument is people from agri. need to move out from farm sector to industry sector...
once people move out then only productivity and efficiency will improve...
and this can’t be challenge if u analyze this using economic model only...
u need to see the social model also...
in India...agri has become a 3rd grade profession...and nobody wants to stick to it...
so if only fools are left with agri...and all good ppl migrate to industry....
then it wont solve the problem...

nagalia: I get this...
but I dont get the relevance

me: so I am saying...
u may give US example...
but it wont be applicable exactly...

nagalia: abe I am not saying thats what needs to happen or will happen
I am saying....
there is no harm in admitting we are lagging behind in terms of economy
and other societal factors

me: u r saying when enough opportunities are there that security is not an issue...creativity will come...

nagalia: ya

me: but the prob is if the basics are not right...
it wont come...

nagalia: dude....
thats the whole point...
only “then” the basics will change

me: but imagine same agri thing happen here also..
people who are interested in creativity are not in the system...
then who brings the change in the system??

nagalia: dude...everybody is interested in leaving their jobs and starting something new
but they need security

me: dude even people with enough security are not pushing for that...

nagalia: if this year a top company...
lets say this year ITC tells the grads it has hired
go out and do what u want...
start a venture..
if required we will help u connect with pple who can fund you
if u have a good idea

me: ya...

nagalia: and if u fail....lets say by the end of 3 years
this job is here for u to come and take it
else u can join now
how many pple do u think will take up the offer of going out to look

me: point is that wont happen...

nagalia: dude..
first answer the question

me: u know the answer...

nagalia: exactly..
thats what a developed economy says

me: but my point is this wont happen...

nagalia: go out there....do what u want
if u fail....we have a job for u
it will happen
when there are 10 ITCs
it will happen
it may not be exactly how it happened in US

me: and I just trying to tell u “only” security wont change anything...

me: u tell why u r into job??

nagalia: firstly I dont have an idea....which is worth "leaving" the job for

me: exactly....
from where that idea will come??

nagalia: dude....
if I knew that I get this job back...
I wud leave now and explore for sometime

me: unless social environment helps you to think in a diff way...
ideas wont come...
in lack of idea...security wont help...
nagalia: one of my friend in US, she realised she was interested in learning japanese
and now thats what she is gonna do
can u imagine me....leaving IIT to go and learn japanese
??
it is not about "the idea"

me: yaar wahan pe social condition is different...

nagalia: it is about being able to pursue what u want
it is about being able to find out what u want
once u are doing what u want....ideas will come

me: yeh batao why social entrepreneurship is catching popularity here and not in US...

nagalia: because u dont know about the initiatives in US
there are plenty
dude...
me: because the basic needs of ppl is taken care by Govt....
if there are plenty....Yunus mohhamad wont be the biggest expert...

nagalia: which is all beside the point
me: this is not beyond point...
point is you cant rule out social dynamics...
nagalia: my simple point is....my own example
if there wasnt pressure on me to go to IIT
i wud've had 18 years of my life to explore what i really wanted to do
u need to understand....
that children these days are under a lot of pressure

me: dude my point is social is as important as economical..
u r saying its only economical...
i am understanding that what u r saying is one of the two things....
and i am in full agreement with that...
but I cant accept that it is the only thing...

nagalia: i am not saying its the only thing
but i feel things will fall in line

me: say if some X party wins election..
and brings some crazy populist economic schemes and screw up the economic growth??
so the thing is things can go wrong...
similarly u can’t guarantee that “only” economical change will necessarily lead to the change we are looking for...

nagalia: i am not guaranteeing anything

me: some big social unrest happens in the country....like internal frictions by extremists group....ethinicity & religion based riots...
may actually really change the social fabric...
ur point is "if economic growth stays on the correct path....then u feel rest of the things will fall in line"
nagalia: yes....

me: i am saying "even if economic growth stays on the correct path....if other correct steps are not take, things wont fall in line"

nagalia: but I am not saying...."I guarantee it will fall in line"

me: I am telling what you need to do to guarantee it....
or trying to explore...
as I said, what I am proposing is based on the limited knowledge of mine...

nagalia: dude...
nobody can guarantee

me:but u "need" to work towards it...
u r saying...karo to accha hai...
nahi karoge to bhi shayad things will fall in line...

nagalia: i am not a big fan of social entrepreneurship...
i mean I know its important...in our current scenario
but its not something which will resolve anything in the long run

me: neither am I... hence I wont be doing it...
I feel it is a useless thing in the current scenario...

nagalia: nahi....it is important

me: its a half cooked response to the social needs...
which will NOT bring the change which it is attempting
because social entrepreneurs don’t understand social issues

nagalia: but my views are pretty capitalist
i belive it is a "suboptimal" use of resources

me: even mine are...
because thats what the current value of the system is...
so if u want to bring the positive change...
u need to Optimize the resources....
nagalia: exactly...
tell people the language of money...
"but" along with that....
so i agree with ur views to as far as "socially aware" capitalism...as long as bankers keep getting paid nicely


me: exaclty...
I am saying capitalists need to understand society...
work capitalist...
even I will...
but understand how it is impacting the society....and how can u bring the change u want "positively" using this....
and dont sit and say..."i feel it'll bring the change"

nagalia: well....i will surely discuss with u when i do anything...which may bring a change

me: that is the different between social entrepreneurship and "socially aware" (as u quoted) entrepreneurship..

nagalia: hmmm

me: .first is an ad-hoc response to the social issues....

nagalia: and second is a long term solution

me: second is planned response to the social issues...
it may not solve...but it'll create that environment which you are talking...

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